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Forum:LETCA Project; Chapter Page Problems
I've been trying to improve the chapter pages lately, but there has been conflict on many things about it, such as the trivia, chapter notes, quotes, etc. I have decided that we all have to discuss this before official changes are made. This is a rather important topic, so please post what you think. Anyone may post new inconsistencies on this topic as well, if there are any other than what is already here. JapaneseOPfan 16:24, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ---- After a long while has passed, User:Ricizubi started a similar project and it was decided to call this the LETCA Project as well. For there were some objections in his decisions, this forum was opened up once more. 04:15, July 4, 2011 (UTC) What is the LETCA Project? LETCA stands for Let's Expand The Chapter Articles. ''It's goal is to make all the chapter pages somehow correspond to the Chapter Page Layouts. Ricizubi's LETCA stages (planned) '''Stage 1' In the first stage, the unlinked names, locations etc to articles must be done also the Attack part is to be completely deleted, the Trivia needs to be looked at, if it is in connection with the series, add it to the chapter notes, if it contains spoilers for the chapter, delete it and keep it only if it connect the chapter with some event, other manga, etc... . Also the useless quotes need to be deleted, like a dialogue or things that are really useless, only important quotes need to be kept, a very good example is Luffy shouting at Robin and saying that she wants to live. The covers are sometimes not raw, so if they are not raw, go to the image, to their file and scroll down until you see categories, there add:Scanlation Images. (If not there already) There are some chapters that have only summaries, those are to be divided into "Long Summarry" and "Quick Summary" also the Short Summary is to be changed into Quick Summary Stage 2 Around the 200th chapter, the characters aren't shown in their tables and they are to be added in one. Stage 3 Improving, writing and maybe even rewriting the all of the summaries and improving the chapter notes if possible, also in this stage, the final stage, all the grammar errors and expressing mistakes are to be corrected. *JOPfan's notes: Be sure to take off the stub template AFTER COMPLETING a chapter page. Contributors 'Old Generation LETCA Members' This is not a discussion, but please put your signature below if you are actually contributing in the LETCA Project wether it is a lot or just minor things like spell/grammar check. Anyone can participate.. I just need to make sure. *JapaneseOPfan 16:30, February 5, 2011 (UTC) *Roranoa zoro ( minor things like : Spell/Grammar check ) * 06:12, February 27, 2011 (UTC) (Mostly Long Summaries, short summaries if necessary, and occasionally chapter notes). (*NOTE: Do NOT edit here. Edit below.) 'New Generation LETCA Contributors' Please place your signature below the stage you are willing to or already participating. Also, everybody hold off with all the LETCA editing until the forum is closed. (Or else more conflict will occur.) 'Stage 1' *[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:03, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 12:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 14:24, July 4, 2011 (UTC) *Fire-Fist-Portgas-D.-Ace 22:27, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Stage 2' *[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:03, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 16:55, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 'Stage 3' * 04:21, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 05:48, July 4, 2011 (UTC) * 14:24, July 4, 2011 (UTC) (Remodeled) Conflicts and Troubles; Discussion This is remodeled; please post your opinions under each topic on what you think. ' 04:15, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Chapter Page Layout State your thoughts on what should be changed or not changed in this page. ---- I say delete the attacks section, and maybe the quotes section. They have no meaning to me. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Page Titles' Are you fine with the chapter page titles being Chapter 1, 2, etc... or do you want them to be the actual titles? ---- I am fine the way things are, for many Chapter titles are the same as other article titles, therefore we will have to make disambiguation pages. Anyway, it's too much extra work. Numbers also make it easier to keep track of many things. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) '﻿Titles' What is the best title to use... direct translation (fansubs) or manga subs. ---- I like the accurate translations; sometimes official translators translate things way off. 04:52, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Page Number' Small section questioning wether the cover page counts as a page or not when listing page numbers. ---- I think they do, correct? 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Quotes' In the Chapter Layouts Page, it just states to put the "important quotes" in this section. I would like to hear what you think qualifies as an important quote, and if two or more people interacting with each other would fall into this category as well. EDIT: Do we even want this section? I personally dont like this section at all ! the sentences there are hardly any quotes ! i've put up a forum named "Quotes" , i think no one had a look at it !Roranoa zoro 17:11, February 5, 2011 (UTC) I noticed the fact that you don't like the quotes section.. I don't mind it being there, so we'll have to se what others think for the moment. JapaneseOPfan 17:21, February 5, 2011 (UTC) I dont mean the Quotes to be removed : but what i mean is the sentences there must be QUOTES and not random sentences! Roranoa zoro 17:28, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Well this section of the forum asks what you think qualifies under an important quote!! and so what is your opinion on this.. try not to make it vague. JapaneseOPfan 17:31, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Sorry if i had sounded rude (i never meant it !) and,.....Roranoa zoro 17:38, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Qualifications for a sentence to be a Quote :.................. i think we must wait for others' opinions!Roranoa zoro 17:38, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ---- I'd say neutral, but I'm sort of starting to want to delete them. But then again on the other hand, they do help you remember which chapter had your favorite quote... yep, I'm neutral. 04:52, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Length of Summaries' ﻿Some long summaries are about the length of the quick summaries for the current chapters.. and some quick summaries are only a few words. Post your opinion on what you think a good length for each summary should be. EDIT: Should there be a long and short summary section, or just one summary section? ---- I think a good length would of course be how long they are in the current chapters. I say we keep both short and long summary section. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Short or Quick?' While we're at it: should it be called Short Summary or Quick Summary? It's better to stay consistent. Pick one or the other. ---- Random: I say Short Summary. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Attacks' ﻿Do only named attacks qualify for this section, or do regular punches and kicks also count. Also, is this section even needed at all? Should be counted too Yountoryuu 21:30, February 5, 2011 (UTC) I think though it'll take more time, we should add unnamed attacks.. for ex., Nami didn't have named attacks until she got her clima tact. JapaneseOPfan 19:00, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ---- DELETE. I don't know what I was thinking back then. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Trivia / Chapter Notes' Lately, me and my fellow LETCA Project contributors were discussing about wether to merge the Trivia section with the Chapter Notes to just make 1 section, or just leave it as it is. I have never gotten a clear response on this, so I decided to see everyone's ideas on what to do about this. Personally, I would like to merge the two sections to make things easier. Please comment on what you think, and why. JapaneseOPfan 17:21, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Here's what I think and why: Trivia and Chapter Notes are completely different from one another , i dont understand what u meant to do by merging them : Please elaborate over this matter Roranoa zoro 17:11, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Well, merging meant like for example, transferring the trivia contents to the chapter notes section and completley erasing the trivia section. JapaneseOPfan 17:21, February 5, 2011 (UTC) and what's the point in doing that?Roranoa zoro 17:32, February 5, 2011 (UTC) We dont need to have content in Trivia, what i mean is this content can be empty also : we cant have trivia for every single chapter!Roranoa zoro 17:32, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Well,first of all, (I will not name him) but a user told me that Trivia becomes Chapter Notes in a chapter page, but another user (I will not name her either) told me that they stay the same. This concept confused me a little while processing the LETCA, so I added this to the Forum to basically see which idea has more people that agrees to them. As you mention, I made some of the Trivia "N/A" since I wanted to make it at least look like the page layouts.. but anyway, i've invited other users to this forum so let's wait and hear their opinions. JapaneseOPfan 17:39, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Hmm ! We'll have to wait and see!Roranoa zoro 17:42, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ---- Merge...? 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'Trivia qualification' ﻿Does everything in the page qualify as trivia? We are talking about even the mythbusters, laughter styles, name variants, etc... everything. Please post your opinion and why you think this below. I personally thing everything in the trivia page would qualify as trivia. Objections? JapaneseOPfan 18:57, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ---- Only GOOD trivia, such as typos/drawing mistakes that were fixed later on when the volume came out (Such as the Zoro 160 million beli case, or the Zoro wrong lost eye case) or other things that have to do with the Magazine. Don't just blindly delete the section; some of this stuff is good. 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) '﻿References' ﻿Is this needed? some chapters include this section for some reason. ---- I say it really isn't... 04:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Polls Alright, this is the OFFICIAL POLL that everyone wanted so dearly. Let's see the outcome of it. LETCA Contributors, please stop the process or at least slow the project down a little until the polls end. Polls will close on the 20th of July. I'm making this one long. It's a big decision, plus I won't be able to log in as much from the 10~19th due to a camp on a college campus with strict scheduling. Now I hate doing this but it's gotta be done so here is the voting criteria: *You have to be logged in. *You have to have been here at least 3 months or more. *You have 300 edits or more. Anybody who votes and does not match the criteria will have their vote erased from the list. If you have something in mind that I haven't added, you may add onto the poll. NO ERASING OTHER USER'S VOTES. Now let us begin! 05:32, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Now that it is past the 20th of July, polls are closed. Thank you for your contribution! 02:25, July 21, 2011 (UTC) ''Main Polls'' 'Do we need the quotes section?' - Yes, definitely. #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) - Never. # 09:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 14:15, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 19:44, July 4, 2011 (UTC)(changed my mind) - Only for important quotes # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) And they have to be groundbreakingly important # 07:58, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 12:20, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #Black Leg Sanji 19:53, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) # 04:37, July 5, 2011 (UTC) - Neutral/Don't care # 05:32, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # //Impossible to decide what quotes are IMPORTANT and Never is never an option...I changed my mind just after clicking edit to vote! # 'Do we need the Attacks section?' - Yes, definitely. #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) - Not Necessary. # 05:32, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 08:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:09, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 09:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 12:20, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 14:25, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) - Only named attacks # //How about adding something like Kickx3..Punchesx5..lol! - Only first appearence # - Neutral/Don't care # 04:37, July 5, 2011 (UTC) 'Do we need any trivia?' - For all pages. #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # //Trivia ofcourse needs to be Only GOOD, relevant ...how can that be a different option?! - Delete. # - Only GOOD, relevant trivia # 05:33, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) (as long as it's under Chapter Notes) # 07:58, July 4, 2011 (UTC) (as long as the trivia obeys the recently voted rules) #[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:09, July 4, 2011 (UTC)(as long as it isn't a chapter note) # 09:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 12:20, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 14:25, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) # 04:37, July 5, 2011 (UTC) - Neutral/Don't care # ''Minor Polls'' 'Short or Quick Summary? (Title; Quick Random Choice)' - Short # 05:32, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:13, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 08:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 09:18, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 12:21, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) # 05:08, July 5, 2011 (UTC) - Quick #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) (doesn't really matter) #[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:11, July 4, 2011 (UTC)(Too many quick summmaries, while the short ones are only a few) # //voted here as there's no Neutral:) # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) 'References needed?' - Yes #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Why the hell wouldn't references be needed? # 09:18, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # //NEARLY NOTHING can be allowed without references... # - No # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:13, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 08:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC) (the word "references" is really misleading, I had to check several articles to understand why people are against them, and I agree) #[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:11, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) - Sometimes # 05:08, July 5, 2011 (UTC) 'Chapter title Fansub/Scanlation or Official Translation?' - Fansub #SeaTerror 07:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC) - Official # 16:57, July 4, 2011 (UTC) - Most common used # - The most accurate; depends on case # 05:32, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 06:13, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 08:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 09:11, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # 09:18, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # # 12:21, July 4, 2011 (UTC) # [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC) #海賊-姫 03:01, July 5, 2011 (UTC) # 05:08, July 5, 2011 (UTC) Discussion Why shouldn't there be references? All pages need references. Also the most accurate translation is usually what is done by fansub/scanlators since most try to translate as accurately and directly as possible. SeaTerror 07:15, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Reference as in "referencing the chapter itself"? Let's say the article "chapter 500", are we gonna reference the summary and quotes with "chapter 500"? The chapter itself should be a reference enough. Redundancy. 09:18, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Then what about distinguish the options in all references/only the ones external to the chapter itself? But you need to reset that poll...And about the trivia, what does "for all page" means? How can you add a trivia if there aren't? Also, I'd like to discuss another thing. What about easter eggs characters? Where should they be mentioned? I added some Pandaman appearences in the trivia sometimes... Also I added an option to the attack section. :For all pages means that the section should be added everywhere, even if it exists or not, if there is none you place under the section N/A, And the easter eggs, that sounds pretty good and it would also stop the problem from Pandaman's talk, there could be another section added for it, or just a list on the easter eggs page, the idea is good, but it will be allot of work as well, noticing them isn't very easy, you need a sharp eye.[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 10:23, July 4, 2011 (UTC) To DP:At the quotes, groundbreakingly important, but what is that exactly? If they are groundbreaking, we should all remember them so can you make a list?[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 10:23, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Wait, I don't want to start a project "let's find pandaman", I simply said that if someone spots him he can note that on the trivia section (if it's oke to add that in this section). Ok then then.[[User:Ricizubi|'リチャード']][[User_talk:Ricizubi|'Mornin'!']] 11:22, July 4, 2011 (UTC) Another good trivia example would be for instance Chapter 595 where it says: *The poster released with Shonen Jump 2010 #37-38 double issue was made in order to commemorate the record print of One Piece volume 59 (3.2 million). *The poster's tag line "It's astounding how fast the time fleets" is a reference to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show". By the way, now that I look at this page, it looks like Chapter notes and Trivia are different. I'm pretty sure the Pandaman stuff can go under chapter notes, but this stuff above is real trivia. 19:24, July 4, 2011 (UTC) @Rici, I was thinking quotes like Robin's "I want to live" or Doflamingo's justice speech. Now that I think about it, though, I may reconsider. As for trivia vs chapter notes. Pandaman would be the only thing going under chapter notes, and last I saw we were none too crazy about finding him 625 times. Chapter notes would be for pointing out pinpoint pieces of information that might not be mentioned in the summaries, like Nami's new Clima-Tact, or character X's introduction. Trivia would be more related to interesting bits of information that really have nothing to do with plot points like "Usopp's attack____is the fourth species of plant to sprout from pop greens. Interesting but not really relevant. I just want to clarify, this (in my opinion) only applies to trivia that is on chapter pages, not trivia in general. 19:38, July 4, 2011 (UTC) i don't know a lot about this, but the only thing that i want to discuss is the "Quote" section. I agreed on that only important Quotes should be added but my Question is that who? and how? will it be judged about which Quote is important and which is not. Well there is chat where 3 - 5 active members including one admin can discuss and make choice and if anyone has a better idea. i leave the decision to the people in charge of this project. and hope that at the end of this project the wiki info will be more useful and much easier to understand. [[User:MDM|'Monkey.D.Me']] [[User talk:Monkey.D.Me|'Leave it ..... to Ahou']] 19:48, July 4, 2011 (UTC) I've changed my mind, I think the quotes section should be completely deleted. 19:51, July 4, 2011 (UTC) : How do we decide which quote is "important"? I actually have to agree with Rici, no quotes. Save them for character pages. 01:03, July 7, 2011 (UTC) The character pages already have quotes. Chapter quotes are for other quotes so the character pages are not cluttered. SeaTerror 06:42, July 7, 2011 (UTC) Yeah, but some of them are repeated. The only one that comes to mind that I'm pretty sure is repeated like that is "I want to live!". 06:48, July 7, 2011 (UTC) : Hello?..no one answered my question..How do we decide which quote is "important"?..is it that we vote on each quote or something else? For those who are in the LECTA project, please use the code "colspan" for the character tables where a section is 2 column wide... you have to simply add colspan="2" in the header, see this guide. People, if you finished discussing it and voting then we should begin the work already, or are there any other problems? 06:44, July 8, 2011 (UTC)(Ricizubi) : Yes there are 2 problems...1.My question is still unanswered and 2.Why don't ya log in?! Well I would say important quotes would be the ones that solve an arc (I want to live, etc.) or the famous quotes such as the one Doflamingo said about justice (forgot it XD). Just the good ones, not any random dialogue. 17:32, July 8, 2011 (UTC) : Ok!..how do you decide which one is famous and which one is random? I suppose ones that would or could cause some sort of revelation from its utterance. Tiger's "I was a slave" completely redefined the events at Mariejois. Doflamingo's justice speech caused everyone to look at justice again. The speeches Ace and Whitebeard made at Marineford confirmed a life goal and sent a shockwave throughout the world. They have to affect either the story or the reader's view completely. 05:31, July 9, 2011 (UTC) It's time to close the polls.. 17:37, July 22, 2011 (UTC) : Has this forum ended ?.... I guess so. +1 for people hating useful information. SeaTerror 18:55, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :Lol, well, the chapters were getting out of hand Sea, and I'm confessing coming back to see *some* resolution to the chapters problem is okay. I remember trying to crack on with editing hundreds of chapters alone... And not having an idea if what I was doing wa best for the wikia. I won't say I'm happy 100% with the results,l but looking over what we're left with, theres no problems and no conflicts here. Everything is fine. One-Winged Hawk 17:09, August 8, 2011 (UTC) : A suggestion Well as the title I have a suggestion, I don't wanna make it too long so I'll write only how it works be in short. Making Long summaries is very hard, really is, but short summaries are easeir to create, so what if the there could be a lower standard for pages that don't have long summaries, a chapter page that respects the rest of the layout, but doesn't have a long summary, which is the hardest thing to do. I am proposing this: *The creation of a category called "Chapter without Long Summaries" *The chapters would have minimally a short summary that is called only "Sumary" *The chapters would respect everything else from the layout, except for the Long Summary which is too hard to make *Add the long summaries later, when the will to do it is there In conclusion(I need to write this because I'm not sure you understood what I wrote up there XD), we can make the chapter look great by making them look like the layout says and how it was decided above, with a difference, if they have no difference, the short summary is named Summary and the long summary can be added later, they are to be added in the category I named above, hopefully its a good idea, not a bad one, thank you for reading it, please tell me what you think about? Suggestion bumb! Bumb #2! I am not stopping until you read it and share your opinions. BUMB #3 If you really insist on someone to notice that, i'll say what I think.. I say no, cause its a waste of time/work and its really unecessary.. If the Long Summary is to be added later, there is no need to remove it from the chapters/episodes.. And basically thats why we have 'Stubs' category. I agree with LPK on this one. If it doesn't get done right away, it will get done later, and we have it wait in the stubs category until that time. 22:32, November 7, 2011 (UTC)